Talk:Marantz Class Battleship
This has been a concept that I have been thinking for a while. While the current version looks similar to the USS Devastator (with six half spheres in a half arc on the top and bottom, the original version was closer to a variation of the original battlestar Galactica (original version) with 4 hangars instead of just 2, and several ships resembling some Federation Star Ships as well as the Millenium Falcon attached to various parts of the mothership. Knight Ranger (talk) 18:15, August 21, 2013 (UTC) Okay I am game..but there are a few questions I have : *1) Do you want them to be Canon? Meaning do you ant me to mention them in some story? *2) If they are a previous Seeinan Design how do they figure in the current story> Meaning are they actually built and stored somewhere or are they *blue prints stored? *3) Are there working ship/s around? *4) How much earlier / prior are they? In terms of Tech Level? *5) Or is there some thimg like a Background story you want to go along with these? As for the Design... can you make even a rough sketch and show me ehat you meant with Battlestar Galactica + Federation Ship + Millenium Falcon? Looks like a concept / idea that van be part of the GC Universe..just let me know what you are thinking. VR Imahe : Something like that... Vanessa Ravencroft (talk) 19:40, August 21, 2013 (UTC) The original "millenium Falcon" detachable bridge would be located on the underside of the "nose section" I had tentatively located some other detachable components at various points along the upper and lower components in the original version as well. As for the version I ended up with, I'm going to work on the sketches. As for your other questions: *Feel free to mention them in a story. Two things not mentioned in the article is that while the Computronics controlling them are not completely sentinent, they do have two minor phobias - Fear of being alone (without their "twins", and a fear of combat (something else that makes them unsuitable as warships.) *The design was still being worked on, and the only updated plans were kept in the "self repair module Control Centers". While there were other copies of the plans, the places they were located were destroyed in the massacre of the Seenian society. *The crew of the only working prototype had a short warning (enough to activate the equivalent to their red alert - which also fully activated the self repair modules) before being attacked by the Dark Ones. It and their escorts were some of the first casualties of the war. *The self repair modules were temporarily without power and left alone. Initially the process of rebuilding the ships was slow before the modules drifted into a denser nebula. Even then, it took over 200,000 years to rebuild the ships - 197,500 of those years depending only on what came within 1000 miles before enough propulsion and tractor beams came on line to range further. *In terms of Tech Level they are basically identical to the Karmat and Lyrec classes were prior to being refit. The development problems were caused more by ignoring previous lessons than by trying to do things above their tech level (for instance preventing a ship's weapons from firing on other parts of the ship is something that done decades ago, although there was at least one case in WWII that someone mannaged to overide the safeguards and shoot their own ship.) *The background story has the company in third place in terms of military contracts trying to gain a bigger share. Initially it looked like they succedded until all the problems were found after the prototype was built (about a third of the problems were caused by sabotage from their competitors.) Shortly after the problems became public, the top two companies proposed what would become the Karmat and Lyrec classes. *The only functional ships would be the three clones of the original prototype. They would be in standby mode upon discovery with the self repair modules preserving them. Knight Ranger (talk) 23:37, August 21, 2013 (UTC) Doh Ummm, how could a tech level 11 civilization like the Seenians possibly overlook something as simple as weapon lockouts? This is an incredibly basic design flaw. Uhu Yes I agree, especially since Seenian weapons are for the most part translocator type (the Union TL is based on the Seenian weapon) Meaning the weapon is omni directional and translocated via a different time/space continuum ...but I like the idea of design flaw.. Instead of physical three dimensional obstacles. The fact that the Marantz splits and thus creates individual Para Dim shields, they could somehow interfere with the initial displacement of the TL bomb and cause the AM load to explode right there since the trans dim portal could not be established or had been interrupted by overlapping shield covers. In WWII the rear gunners of Thunderbolt planes did sometimes hit their own tail fins. Phantom 4F and Lookheed Starfigher pilots released board cannon bursts and dove into their own bullet hail (happened 3-4 times) I am not saying that the Seenians have WWII or 20th century problems. I was simply making a point that no matter how advanced (well at least to a point) People develop new technology and must learn how to use it, first use might point out design flaws that had not been considered before. Ideal lab conditions and tests might not consider or replicate real world or real combat conditions. The M-16 is a prime example of a over engineered fine piece of weapon perfect in the lab and on the test range.Almost useless and dangerous to the user in the Jungles of Nam. Where the primitive and inaccurate AK47 ruled. But eventually the M-16 developed into the AR family of rifles and they are excellent. Of the many "Vergeltungs Waffen" and "Wunderwaffen" of the Third Reich much was far ahead of its time but most was too complicated, to difficultto produce en masse, and not tested in the battle field that none was able to reverse the forseeable defeat. Bottom line is the Marantz is an idea, it has not made Canon in its current form , but the concept and the idea of an old Seenian weapon that had the potential of being something good but was plaqued with design flaws is a good one. Since it is a very dangerous endeavour to play with toys of bigger kids.When you are unable to comprhent its dangers or functions. I was playing with the idea of a few cocky Terran/ Union scientist disregard Stahl's and McElligotts warning (McElligott always advocated to reach that TL on its own) and by doing so wake a Demon they can't contain and thus create a nice little story VR Vanessa Ravencroft (talk) 22:29, March 18, 2014 (UTC) 1) The Marantz was developed before the TL technology was available to Seenians The idea of the "shoot itself" flaw came from an incident involving a WWII ship where a turret was turned to far and stot itself. Also in WWII one of the torpedo designs originally had a flaw were it would occasionally would circle around and target the ship that launched it. Basically, the idea was that the engineers that designed the Marantz were not aware of some of the potential issues that their design had, which had been encountered and solved by those working at the two companies that would a short time later design the Lyrec (USS Devasatator) and Karmat (USS Dominator) class ships. In other words - they themselves were playing with a concept that they didn't fully understand. Knight Ranger (talk) 23:36, March 18, 2014 (UTC) Alright, though I would still expect pretty much any ship/weapon designer to have been familiar with similar incidents out of their own history. After all, before a society gets to even tech level 4 they are going to have used chemically powered weapons. On the other hand I suppose there is also a prossibilty (deliberate mix of possibility and probability) that Terrans are simply so much more aggressive and fought so many more wars that Terran weapon designers simply have far more of these passed down lessons to remember. A problem with shields interfering actually makes way more sense that a basic failure like neglecting to install weapon lockouts. With a new overlapping shield system I could see the simulators not being set up to properly model the situation and there being gaps in prior experience so that the designers aren't even aware that strange things will happen. Although there too I would expect someone to set up a small scale test at some point, even if it were just "can we protect this space less expensively by using two small cheap generators instead of having to build a single giant generator to cover the whole facility?" But even with such a test they could well not realize there's going to be a problem sending TL loads through. SoronelHaetir (talk) 23:55, March 18, 2014 (UTC) Yes I understand both arguments. I like Knight Rangers Idea of design flaws. Who knows how long prior to the war it was designed. The step between TL 10-11 takes a very long time Think of it as the Warp Speed Scale in STNG It is impossible to reach Warp 9 in GC it is nearly impossible to reach TL12 The higher the TL gets the longer it takes to get to the next one. So maybe the Marantz is a few hundred thousand years older ? TL Canons and Para/Trans Dim shields require complex moredimentional calculations .But it still involves the standard dimensions as both systems are meantto affect real space conditions. Lets say the Marantz was in Quasi Space (From Eric we know you should never ever do that). Or the Marantz version of the Isah Pods affected time space conditions, Something not considered in a test from a static lab/test the Seenian Translocators Stahl brought back weren't as reliable and accidents did happen. Perhaps the Seenians were lazier and relied on robotic systems alone to load them (Powder room explosion aboard last in service US battleship effectivley ended the battleship era) the early Seenian TL brought back by stahl could not shoot through their own shields. And had to be switched off for each volley. (Shield reset takes about 5 seconds, a long time in space battles) At that time the new PD shields could not be combined with Old Shimmer Shields ( Para dim reflected or conducted the electro magnetic based Shimmer shield energy just as anything else) ( bow men in ancient battles stepped from behind their shields or cover, released their arrows and returned behind cover) this why Shiss, Nogoll,Dai and everyone else was not completely impotent . Weapons hitting Union ships during that tme caused damage. the Union eventually learned to disable only the area around the TL Cannon while it fired. So all this could have some design flaw in it somewhere. I am not going to use the Marantz anytime soon and If I do we can work on a plausible flaw. In the meantime why not simply generalize it by saying. Some sort of desgn problem or saying no record exist why the Seenians decided to abandon the project? I still like it,as anything flawed can be developed into the core of an interresting story Vanessa Ravencroft (talk) 01:59, March 19, 2014 (UTC) How about that? Looking again at that drawing, I've decided that it looks better than the one in the article. One last thing about the problems with the some of the weapons potentially causing damage to the ship itself. As part of the back story behind the design of this ship (that was not recorded anywhere that survived the Celtest/Dark Ones war) is that it was a proposal by the third largest Seenian military shipbuilder. The two largest ones accounted for over 95% of all ships and this design was an attempt to break that virtual duopoly. The two largest companies frequently worked together in making complimentary designs (such as the Karmat and Lyrec) and managed to bride the team designing the weapons and shield systems. As a result, when there was a simulated weapons test, the damage was on the Marantz ship - not the target. The team was fired and soon disappeared (before enough evidence had been gathered to prove the team had been bribed the war had been lost.) The new engineers were able to solve the problem, but by then the competition had already been lost (to the designs that became the Lyrec and Karmat ships.) Knight Ranger (talk) 12:50, March 19, 2014 (UTC)